17 Comments

Wow thank you; this interview and Sarah’s essay were both excellent reads.

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Thanks so much for reading!

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Dec 5, 2023Liked by Kelly Hayes

So much to contemplate. Not so much the specifics —“Factual observations” like Cop Cities and the coming Totalitarian state, as well as the outright demonization, and culling, of “disposable” children (actual babies, school age children, and those young adults groomed for war since birth, which includes the soldiers on both sides (terrorists are created systemically))—but what to do about it. How to mount effective countermeasures against what is coming. Unfortunately, this is what consumes most of my waking hours. Fortunately, we do have each other.

Thank you both for this.

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I see nothing but the totalitarian onslaught either and it occupies my mind all the time. Sarah seems to be saying the bad guys already won. Her logic and argument are impeccable. But, I’m not good at surrendering.

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Sarah def isn't saying that the bad guys have already won, just that they have taken more ground than most people realize. We both believe that we should never stop fighting. Thank you for reading!

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I see no *way* to fight. The Biden Democrats are 100% complicit. As Sarah said, “dont vote for trump” but she was ambivalent whether anyone votes for Biden (which helps Trump in our crazy binary system) so either way we are heading for violence. And these damn cop cities are insane.

What do we do?

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When it comes to the presidency, I don't have an answer for you. There are no great outcomes on the horizon in that regard. But there are a lot of fronts to organize on. As I mentioned, I would read up on anti-fascism and anti-authoritarian organizing and histories. I understand despair, because there's a lot of ugly shit going on, but there's also always a lot to do. I'm an organizer. I stay busy.

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I bought your book a few minutes ago. I’ll give it a try.

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Dec 5, 2023Liked by Kelly Hayes

This is so excellent. things are so frightening when genocide is occurring and the rise of fascism...thank you

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Dec 5, 2023Liked by Kelly Hayes

A very meaningful conversation between two individuals who are excellent! Glad to be subscribed to both!

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Thanks so much for reading!

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Dec 10, 2023Liked by Kelly Hayes

I waited to finally read this conversation and now, at the end, I feel myself tearing up. I've read a lot of stuff over the last few weeks, trying to keep up with events and the downward tilt of the world, it seems. In the process, my outrage has felt muted. I have felt helpless to stop the worst things from happening, from escalating.

I have such enormous respect for both of you and your tireless commitment to speak truth to power. There is such clarity in your diagnoses of the political climate we find ourselves in that I am suitably horrified and also braced for more/worse to come. But the tears arrived when you both spoke of your intentions to offer to keep your Substacks free of charge. That is anti-capitalist and generous and justice-seeking in a media environment that expects the opposite of all of us, readers, writers - all of us. That commitment is also about staying open and available and accountable to each other. I understand that plenty of writers cannot afford to write essays for free. I get it. It is therefore all the more meaningful for me that both of you are invested enough *in us* to trust us with your words and ideas, to sharpen our own trajectories toward justice in action.

Thank you both for your time, energy and example. Always.

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Thank you so much for reading and for sharing these thoughts! I appreciate you.

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Overwhelmed from this. As usual, Sarah takes me to the darkest place where there is no hope. Her description of Biden’s complicity is exactly right and bracing.

There is no way out. Our democracy is just going to slip away and spiral into violence. There isn’t a single shred of something we can do to stop it. And there is no organization out there which could make any difference at this point. Dems and the GOP under big money influence have destroyed America.

I feel like nothing constructive is possible.

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This is, in fact, an era of collapse, and I agree that's pretty scary stuff. As for there being no way out, I think there are always things we can do to build toward something better. For one thing, I think we have to be more invested in each other and our shared humanity than we are in this system, and we need to ready ourselves to fight fascism. Those two objectives mean a lot of work, especially given how consumed our society is by individualism. I highly recommend Shane Burley's work on anti-fascism. You also might want to check out Let This Radicalize You, as we talk a lot about organizing in dark times and holding hope and grief at the same time.

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Thanks. Good ideas.

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No great answer for you Mark. Humanity is where it is psychologically. However, there is plenty of things to do. Most importantly, we can stop playing the game. Meaning, we can stop giving the 1% our energy. Imagination is key. I often think about what today would be like if, the anti-war movement of the 1960’s had just gone quiet. Quiet-quitting on a massive scale. What if every non-right-winger on every Social Media platform deleted their accounts on the same day. Minimize, get healthy, physically and emotionally. Nurture Love (fight) not hate (flight). Bolster your current support group (family, which includes your chosen family). Prepare to go silent. And don’t stop creating art. No guarantees, but hope is only possible with action.

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